00:00:00SLOAN: August 1, 2016. We're with Mirzeta Colic in the Kendall Library in
Houston. This is an interview with the Texas Holocaust and Genocide Commission
Survivors of Genocide Project. Mirzeta, I hope I pronounced your last name correctly.
COLIC: It's actually Cho-lich.
SLOAN: Cho-lich.
COLIC: But then I would have to completely change it, in order to be pronounced correctly.
SLOAN: I see, okay Cho-lich. Well as I mentioned earlier I'd like to spend some
time getting some of the background of growing up. I'm also going to
mispronounce your hometown--but Bijeljina?
COLIC: Bijeljina.
SLOAN: Bijeljina. I'd like to get an idea of life in Bijeljina growing up there.
Let us know a little bit about your family if you could.
COLIC: Well my parents--my father met my mother in Bijeljina. He came from a
village. Initially, they all lived in a small house when they had me. Then,
00:01:00afterwards my father decided to finish his school. He was also married and going
to college at the same time. He ended up working for schools as a chief of
finances for schools and also at the same time building a house for us so we
could have something on our own. He was working really, really hard for all
three daughters. He also taught us that education was very important. In our
country a lot of parents would expect their daughters to get married and
probably not to go to school, but he taught us that we can do everything if we
00:02:00just set our minds to it. I was the first born and he would always tell me
you're the only daughter of mine I can send to any country in the world and know
you will survive. Those words stuck with me when I was on a journey that I could
never imagine could happen.
SLOAN: That lesson of getting an education stuck, too. We said right before we
started you're about to get a degree in the fall.
COLIC: Yes. I started my education--actually, when I was little, I always wanted
to be a doctor, because I was thinking, that way you can help others. I was
always passionate about helping others. Even now, that would be my passion. If I
could help people, so this world becomes a better world, that would be something
00:03:00I would do. Also, maybe help people in Bosnia, since a lot of them there are
still suffering. Initially, that's what I wanted to become. However, I couldn't
go through the process of being accepted at the university. It was kind of hard,
so my father suggested that I study electrical engineering which meant me
working--doing something that it was completely new to me but I ended up liking
it. Once I finished at the school I had a scholarship from the company in
Serbia. That's where I actually worked as an engineer with a team of engineers.
00:04:00The project that we were doing, you could maybe compare them to NASA projects, here.
Like I said both of my sisters went to college in Novi Sad--that's in Serbia. My
middle sister finished business law. My youngest sister started civil
engineering, because of the war, she had to interrupt her education. My mom
didn't go to school. She married when she was eighteen, so she took care of us.
She made sure that we have everything. She gave us love. Also, I learned a lot
from her how to be courageous; I'm thinking about what she experienced--because
00:05:00my parents stayed the longest during the war. The main reason why they stayed
the longest is because my father--I don't want to say that he--it's kind of
like, when I think back, it seemed to me like he was maybe--he couldn't believe
that those people he was friends with would turn against Muslims. He was kind of
naïve, I would say, and he didn't want to leave the house.
SLOAN: Well, he built it, right?
COLIC: Yes, he didn't want to leave it. That's--I wouldn't say that was
courageous. It was really very dangerous to stay or not to see what was going
on. I guess, when you are good in your heart, you cannot believe that there are
people who are not like you. My sisters were separated during the war. My middle
00:06:00sister, she flew separately, and me and my youngest sister, we flew together.
What else I remember--so it was peace. Everything was great. Like, I remember
when Tito was president, we didn't have to pay for medical. It was easy, maybe,
to build a house. I went to high school that was one of the prestigious high
schools where once you finish, you have to actually go to college. Even though
00:07:00my father was the only one who worked, we were able, all three of us, to go to
college. That's not something that you can easily do, but we were able to do all
of that.
SLOAN: So what did you like about electrical engineering?
COLIC: Well, I'm going to go back to the high school. When I was in high
school--it was called gymnasium--I was a straight A student. I was one of the
students where I was good in math, but I was also good in physics or literature,
so it was very hard for me to decide what is it exactly that I need to do with
my life, because I was good in a lot of stuff. Math was one of the things that I
loved the most. What I liked about engineering, it's to have ability to use
00:08:00science and everything that you learned to make something out of it; that's what
I like. As far as the coding that we did, that was very interesting doing all
the testing and spending most hours to accomplish something. After that you were
happy that you were able to do it.
SLOAN: It was also a very exciting time to be working in that field, because
there's a lot happening.
COLIC: Yes.
SLOAN: A lot of changes happening.
COLIC: Yes. I think the other thing is, I'm the kind of person that I never stay
in one place. I'm someone who adapts to change and think that you have to learn
every day. There is no stopping. Technology is something that always evolves
00:09:00over time. Even now, it's amazing what it comes to.
SLOAN: Did you go away to school? Where did you go to your college?
COLIC: Okay, so I started first in Tuzla. When I think back, there was one
professor that I had an issue with him; he wouldn't let me pass. It was a
physics professor. So, I was talking to my parents. My mom suggested that I go
to Serbia, [to] another city. If that didn't happen, I would be stuck in Tuzla
and probably wouldn't be able to survive. When I go back and see all the things
that happened, to me it was like divine intervention. Everything happened for a
reason. Whenever you think "what if" then you froze completely, because you know
00:10:00that wouldn't be good. So, I went to Subotica--that's the city in the north
part. It's called Vojvodina--it's the north part of Serbia. That's where I
finished my degree.
SLOAN: Let's talk a little bit about--I know in your father's work, he
interacted and worked with a lot of Serbians.
COLIC: Yes.
SLOAN: You're going to have this experience in high school, where it's a
majority Serbian.
COLIC: Yes.
SLOAN: Can you talk a little bit about that? We can talk about what's going to
come in the nineties, but growing up, what was that like?
COLIC: As you can see from the Bosnian map, Bijeljina is the city that's close
to the Serbian border, so a lot of professors that I went to were actually from
Serbia, because it's easy for them to come. Also, a lot of people from Bijeljina
00:11:00would go to Belgrade or Novi Sad--these are the biggest cities in Serbia--to go
to study simply because it was so convenient to just cross over the border and
go there, instead of going to Sarajevo. Also, the culture was kind of closer to
Serbia. All of our friends were Serbian friends. Also, in most families, even
though during the war they were trying to say predominantly Muslim population or
predominantly Serbian, most families have a mixture of all. My uncle was married
to a Serbian, or maybe Croatian mixed. There was a mixture of Serbs, Croatians,
or Bosnians, together. We were very close to them. In the high school, there was
00:12:00three of us that were, I would say, Muslim heritage, but all the other ones were
Serbs. I remember from that time, some of them were kind of jealous that we were
really good in school (laughs) and that we were succeeding in everything.
SLOAN: Now, when you say Muslim heritage, you're making distinction between practicing--
COLIC: Yes. That's what I'm making--because my parents they never practiced
[Islam], so we never went to mosque. My father even, I believe in the '60s, they
were asking you to declare yourself, and he would say Yugoslavian, which would
00:13:00[make] him like neutral. In my particular family we were not [practicing
Muslims]. My mom actually told me that, during the war, that's when she started
to pray, and even now that's what she's doing. But, before that, we were not practicing.
SLOAN: I think you also mentioned that Colic is a fairly common name.
COLIC: Yes. Actually, I think that that last name saved me because I used to
study in Serbia. I used to work in Serbia. I had their passport and so when they
look at the last name they--that's what--it's a lot of Serbs with that last
name. I think that last name helped us. Even when me and my sister we were
crossing the border between Bosnia and Serbia there were Chetniks coming inside
00:14:00the--I'm going to give you a story which is also miraculous. So I had a Serbian
passport so they let me go but my sister her name is SamiLa which is a Muslim
heritage name, and he took her passport--it was a Bosnian passport, and he
folded it over. There was something in front of him, so he didn't see her first
name; he only saw the last name. So, there was some situation where we were able
to use that.
SLOAN: Yeah that last name was a big advantage.
COLIC: My other sister the way how she escaped because she married someone whose
last name is Muslim heritage--she actually had to--well you can find someone who
00:15:00can do false ID with a picture of someone else and a Serbian name. That's how
she escaped with a baby. My oldest niece she was born during the war in the
middle of the war. Also, there's a story to it because when she was on the
border some of the guys there they knew us because they went to school with us.
They were our neighbors so she was scared that he might recognize her. Somebody
called him so she was able to get through. So there are just these little things
that were between life and death. (laughs)
SLOAN: I think it is divine intervention. Yeah, yeah a lot of little things.
Well the--you mentioned being Muslim heritage and being a small minority in your
high school and you said that there's a bit of an envy that they may have had
00:16:00towards the success that you were having. Were there any other tensions or
divisions that you felt at that point between when you were with your Serbian
friends and when you were with--
COLIC: No, we never felt that. We would go out together. Have fun together. Go
to the same places. When I go back and I always keep thinking over and over why
did this happen--how could something like this happen? I think that people who
experienced World War Two didn't talk so that younger generation didn't know
what happened. If you don't talk about what happened then the same thing happens
over and over again. I did not feel anything that would--even when the
00:17:00paramilitary forces when they started genocide in Vukovar which is
Croatia--that's where they started first and they were from Serbia. Even though
the president of Serbia was saying that they were never involved everything was
coming--was orchestrated from Serbia. Even when they started bombing Vukovar and
killing civilians or raping women, we didn't think that we could be next. I
would say that a lot of people could have escaped earlier if they really knew
00:18:00what were they against.
One thing that I always think about, is the house that I grew in. It was filled
with love, with care, cooked meal every day, parents that give everything so you
can have education or life that you wanted to have. How can a house like that be
converted into a place of darkness or torture or fear that when you fear every
day that somebody's going to knock on the door or kill you? That's very hard to
00:19:00comprehend. But the only thing that I can take off is that everything was
planned in advance because those paramilitary forces I don't think that they are
really smart enough to do things spontaneously. It has to be a lot of planning
involved for them to know exactly which cities need to be bombarded, which
cities need to be terrorized so the people--Muslim people or Croatian
people--had to leave, and which territories are they going to take over. There
has to be help from somewhere for them to be able to do all that.
00:20:00
SLOAN: I want to work up to that. I want to also ask about--a lot of the
Bosnians we've talked to have very clear memories of when Tito passed away. I'm
just wondering how your family reacted or what you remember thinking?
COLIC: Okay, yeah. It is amazing I do have a memory of that. (laughs) I think we
were watching TV. The whole family was there and I remember my youngest
sister--she was little. She started to cry and she was saying now there's going
to be a war. That's what she was saying. A lot of people were thinking that it's
not going to be good situation. So I--
SLOAN: Did you have thoughts about it? What did you think about it?
COLIC: It was hard to comprehend because you're used to having someone who is
00:21:00trying to unite people--have people together. He was also very famous. To have
that peace all the time and now it's uncertainty because we don't know what
comes next.
SLOAN: This is that period where you're beginning your professional career, and
you're working. I'm wondering, even those years that you were working, if you
noticed changes taking place or the conditions in the country shifting and changing?
COLIC: The conditions started to shift with the--once they--you have leaders who
were basically all trying to--Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia who was trying to
00:22:00build big Serbia. Or in Croatia--I can't remember his name--the president who
was trying to build his country. Everything was pointing out that it's going to
be separation of the people who were once together. For an American, if you see
me, and let's say you see a woman my age who is Serbian or a woman my age who is
Croatian, you wouldn't know the difference, because there is really no
difference. The way we would know--we know because of the names, and because we
are from [there].
SLOAN: This is what the end of the Cold War is going to bring, right? A lot of
00:23:00these independent groups, independent nations wanting to establish their own nation?
COLIC: But, to do this for Bosnia, it was really hard, because in Bosnia, you
have everything together. Bosnia's the heart of ex-Yugoslavia. It's the country
that has long history. When you think about history, World War One started
that--World War Two started in Yugoslavia. We would never dream something in
1990s would happen--the genocide and ethnic cleansing of that proportion against
people. If people would know they would be prepared. You probably know about
Bosnian army, because they started to organize themselves--men, because they
00:24:00want to defend their families, their homes, their daughters, their moms. If they
could have had more support help, I'm sure that they would have pushed Serbians
out from all the territories.
SLOAN: The point at which Bosnia declares independence, do you remember that moment?
COLIC: I remember whenever we talk about independence or peace, whenever they
were talking about this there was more killing, even though they were showing on
TV this is what we are doing. I brought some pictures and I'm going to show it
to you. I went back to my country in 2009. That was the only time I went back
00:25:00and it was hard for me, but I just wanted to visit my father's grave but also
visited the city of Tuzla. One example in the city of Tuzla--when the peace was
proclaimed, on that same day a lot young people they were happy. They went out
in the middle part of the city. They were celebrating. The Serbs they bombard
the city and all of these people were killed. I took pictures of the graves they
have for the young people. We're talking people between, like maybe, her age,
eighteen to over twenty, who were killed when [people were celebrating] the peace.
The same thing [happened] in 1995 in Srebrenica. So that's where United Nations
was there and everyone was talking about peace, but the whole world was watching
00:26:00when these men were killed. When you are killing men, boys or men, the only
reason you're doing this is because you don't want another generation. You leave
women because you can rape them. You can do whatever you want to do with them,
but once you kill men, there is no other generations. None of us could believe
in that.
SLOAN: Yeah. It was hard to celebrate independence because of the death that
came with the violence. Take me through when you began to have some fear. We
talked about early on when you were in high school, even in your early working
life, you're working with Serbs. It doesn't seem that different than it's ever
00:27:00been, but there's a point at which things begin to change, and fear becomes a
big part of it. Can you tell me about that?
COLIC: The fear became--started in--it wasn't really until they started to
occupy Bosnian territory. Like I said, we were listening on the news about what
is going on in Vukovar Croatia, and I remember that was the last time our family
was together. We normally celebrate the New Year together. That was our--like
our family--
SLOAN: Tradition.
COLIC: Tradition--with a lot of food, and everyone would come home. That was the
00:28:00last time when we were together, actually.
SLOAN: And that was when, do you remember when?
COLIC: That would be in 1991. That would be December of 1991, so that's the last
time. If I knew that, I would probably (laughs) do things differently. The fear
became when in the city of Bijeljina--like I said, the city is close to Serbia.
Remember when I said how they planned the cleansing in advance, so they knew
exactly which cities [they] are going to bombard, like Sarajevo and Tuzla, and
which cities they going to start terror[izing]. They used the media, a lot.
That's when it started--in city of Bijeljina. We didn't know what was going on.
00:29:00All of a sudden, you wake up, and there are barricades in front of streets. They
used a lot of media propaganda. In Bijeljina, I knew a lot of journalists who
worked for the city of Bijeljina. One of them, his name is Goran Simic. For some
reason, I remember his name, because I think he did interview with me before--it
was like a radio interview. He knew me. They were spreading lies about
barricades being put by Muslims, and that Muslims were having guns and trying to
kill Serbs. So, that's how they started that propaganda. The first reason for
00:30:00that, was for them to basically--so people can flee, and also to start
organizing Serbs against Muslims. That was the first where we still couldn't
believe what they're going to do to us. When they start with that, the
paramilitary forces came inside the city, and they basically occupied the city.
They were calling them Tigers. I think they--
SLOAN: Arkan.
COLIC: Arkan Tigers. Some of them were wearing masks, so when they would come
00:31:00inside people's home or--a lot of houses in Bosnia they have--
SLOAN: Basement.
COLIC: Basement--I'm thinking in German. (laughs) Basement. So, a lot of people
would hide in basements, in cellars, or wherever they could hide. They were
doing systematic fear, meaning they would take people from homes. Across from
our house, there was a family that we remember. They were kind of--I wouldn't
say very rich, but they were a working hard family. They had big, nice house.
The whole family was distinguished. They lived all together. It was several
00:32:00generations. So, they went there. It's one of the examples when they raped the
daughter-in-law in front of her husband, children, and everyone. My mom always
talks about that. She always talks about that because she knew them. That's one example.
Another example, not very far from our house, there was a house of another
Bosnian family, hardworking people. The whole family was massacred--killed
everyone, so nobody was left. What the media show on Serbian channels or
Bijeljina radio--they were showing one of the Arkans with machine gun and the
00:33:00people. They were saying that the guy that's standing is Muslim, and the people
who are dead on streets or near the houses were Serbs. They were using
propaganda, saying the opposite. Where, indeed, none of the people in Bijeljina
did have any weapons or anything. They were just regular people--families. In a
lot instances, they were taking people to mountains or to the rivers when they
were killing. For me personally, fear started when they came inside the city.
00:34:00Like I said, I was in constant fear. Also, my sister was not there--my middle
sister. They lived in another city. It's called Zvonik. It's also close to the
Serbian border. We knew that they were bombing the city, but I didn't know if
she was alive or not. That was the hardest part for me, too. I was thinking
constantly about her, and I didn't know. The biggest miracle in that, is that
they were captured by Chetniks. They were taking men, killing them. They left
them. They didn't kill them. So, I cannot explain that. There's no way of
explaining that. It's just praying for a miracle. My brother-in-law was able to
00:35:00escape from Bosnia. He swam; he was good swimmer, so he swam. I think if it
wasn't for him, most of us would not be alive, because he helped us a lot, even now.
SLOAN: So, he was able to get out.
COLIC: He was able to get out, to somehow get to--because one of his family
members lived in Germany, he was able to get to Germany. We were all escaping
illegally, so that's how I escaped. Me and my sister we--so I told you about
when they took us from the bus on the border, and we were surrounded [by]
Chetniks with machine guns.
SLOAN: Tell me that story, because we haven't had a chance to record it.
COLIC: I always see one of them--one of the faces. One of them approached me,
00:36:00and said to me, "We're going to kill you all. None of you are going to stay
here." I always remember that. I remember what I was feeling at the moment,
because your adrenalin goes up. You don't know if you're going to survive, or if
they're going to kill you, or if you're going to be alive. It's like you don't
even know if you're alive or dead. There was one thought in my head, because my
sister was next to me. I was praying to God, "Please God, save her." I wasn't
even thinking about myself. I remember one older man. He was very, very scared.
00:37:00Later on, we find out who these men were. They were enjoying killing people,
cutting their parts, or playing soccer with their heads. So, to be able to
escape from them, that's another miracle.
From there, we had to go to Serbia. We lived a couple of months in Belgrade, and
then from there to Hungary. It's easier from Serbia to go to Hungary. Our goal
was to come to Germany, where our brother-in-law and my sister was. From Hungary
to go to Germany, you have to have visa; you cannot just go, so we were just
going to sit on the train and see what happens. We went from Hungary to Vienna.
00:38:00Another thing that I think [that saved] my family, is my uncle lives in Vienna.
For him to decide when he was younger age to live in Austria, he actually saved
our lives with that decision. He got married and had children there, so we were
able to [go there]. When we went on the train, the Austrian police--so, in
Austria and Germany, the police comes inside the train and they ask for an
outside visa, basically, your papers. It's not just to verify if you have a
valid ticket or if you paid for it. When they saw that we didn't have [papers],
they took us off the train, and they said we're going to keep you like in jail,
00:39:00because you cannot come inside [the country]. So, my aunt, my uncle's wife, she
told him to let us go, and that she's going to take care of us. That's how we
were able to stay, but we didn't stay for long. I remember that was in year
1993. I was in Vienna on the street. When it's a new year they celebrate. They
have people on the streets, and everyone is happy. And--but I--I mean, I
couldn't feel happiness. I couldn't because my parents were still in Bosnia.
What they experienced--the horror every day and--sometimes I feel guilt. Can we stop?
00:40:00
pause in recording
COLIC: The reason why I felt guilty is I always thought maybe I should have
talked to my father more and convinced him that he needs to leave. My mom was
ready to leave. She knew that if they stayed any longer, they probably going to
end up being killed or tortured. Even now it's hard for her to talk to me
[about] what happened to them. The only thing that she would say [is] that they
live in constant fear every day. The Chetniks would come to the house. They
would torture them, or they would tell them, why are you still here, and that,
one day they would throw bombs in the garden. My mom used to have a really big
00:41:00garden. That's what I remember, and that's a good memory of the house. She used
to have a lot of roses, different colors of roses. I always think about that as
something good--memory from my childhood. She used to have a lot of
everything--organic veggies. They would threaten them, and one day one of them
came with--she told me--with a machine gun. He was there to kill them. That's
where I realize how courageous my mom is, and how she knew what to do exactly in
a situation where your life might be in danger. She started to talk to him. She
00:42:00asked him about, or he mentioned to her, that he was married to a Muslim woman.
Then she asked him, "Who is your wife?" Then he said her name. Then she told
him, "She's my cousin." That was that situation, where he kind of--she was able
to make kind of connection with him, so he didn't kill them. He left. He was
probably thinking, I'm going to come back, but he never came back. So, there
were these situations.
From Austria to Germany, we were illegally transported the same way you have
illegally people come into the United States. (laughs) But, we had to pay for
it. The reason why I had to work so many jobs in Germany is to pay back all of
00:43:00that money that I had to pay--the same thing for my parents. Serbs were allowing
people to leave if you would give them money, so we had to borrow the money. We
would borrow from my brother-in-law, because he was longer there in Germany. He
was already working, and so they could escape. Finally, when they decided to
leave, they were transported to Hungary. In Hungary, they had something like a
camp, where they were keeping all Bosnian people. It was more like a
concentration camp. It wasn't really--
SLOAN: Conditions were bad.
COLIC: Really bad conditions. We were able to get them out. The first time I saw
my father in Germany, I realized that he was not good. When you look at him, you
00:44:00could say that he was not alive anymore. There was no life in his face. I can
show you pictures--I can show you that so you can see it for yourself. The
German government couldn't allow us to live in the same city, so they had to go
to Saarbrucken, another city close to France. We had to travel on train every
week to see them, back and forth. It was--I mean, you cannot get a break from
war. You can breathe, but still the German government said this is Duldung
[official term used for temporary suspension of deportation in Germany], so it's
not a [permanent] visa. You cannot stay here. I have some papers that shows
exact days when they were actually going to deport us. When I decided to apply
00:45:00to come to United States, they [had] all already received their deportations.
That was another thing. It's like you're going through the same thing all over
again. It's again fear. They're going back. Where are they going to live? Our
house is occupied by Serbs. It is still occupied by Serbs. When I went back in
2009, I did not go there, and I don't want to go there. I don't want to see them
in a house that my parents built. I don't want to see them at all. That's
something that I'm working on all of these years, and still, it's kind of like
you feel that you want revenge for everything that they did. That's why I avoid
00:46:00that. I didn't go there. I stayed in Tuzla and in Sarajevo, but I felt like I'm
a stranger there. It's not where I'm from. I'm an American now, visiting Bosnia.
Once they went back, then I applied [to come to the United States]. There was a
program in Nuernberg where I could apply. My whole family didn't think that I
can accomplish that. That's hard to go through that process. It was a hard
process because initially they actually denied my request, because it was based
on family members. There was a distant relative who lived here in Houston, and
they would only approve it if it was--
00:47:00
SLOAN: Immediate family.
COLIC: Immediate family. I tried that, and then--the man, I'm always going to
remember him. He used to live in United States. It's an older German man. I'm
not sure if he's still alive. He was, at that time, maybe in his seventies. He
helped me. He kind of advised me what to do, what to write. He told me, "Write
down everything what happened to you in Bosnian and then translate. We will
translate in German." I knew German, and then I had to find someone to translate
into English. I waited for a long time, but I was allowed to come here.
SLOAN: So, why the United States?
COLIC: Um--all the other--I mean, in Europe, all the other countries they
00:48:00already had a lot of people, because it was easier for Bosnian people to escape
to go to Europe--any European countries. They already had a lot of people there.
I think it was because I talked to my father. My father's background was in
economics, but he loved geography, and he always talked about the United States.
He knew a lot about history and everything. His last words to me before he
passed, were to go to Houston--to United States. He knew about Houston, too, and
he told me I can succeed. He can see me driving a new car. That's what he told
me. (laughs) That was his last words, but I think my point being here was to
00:49:00bring my family, because if I were not able to bring them, there would be no
purpose for me here. It would be just someone who has experienced something
that's out of the ordinary, experienced war, trying to make a life. But my
family being here and having that support where we lean on each other in every
situation, that's a blessing.
SLOAN: You said earlier, if we're all together, we could be anywhere. So that's
made it a great life, because you've had the family back together.
COLIC: That was another miracle because--I'm talking a lot about miracles, but
that was part of my journey. The YMCA [YMCA International] actually brought me,
so I went to the same agency and asked if I can file paperwork to bring my
00:50:00family. They told me that there was no program for bringing Bosnians to United
States anymore. I've never taken no for an answer--Nathan knows that, (laughs)
from my conversation with him. So, I asked who was in charge of the agency; I'm
going to talk to that person. It was a lady from Vietnam. She came to this
country as a refugee, so she knew exactly where I was coming from. She listened
to my story, and listened for a long time, and she helped me file the paperwork.
My family, at the time--I said they went back. Our house is occupied, so the
first place where my sister lived was a house that didn't even have windows.
That's where she was sleeping, but that was abandoned house. They were really
struggling over there, and they couldn't stay any longer, so they went to
00:51:00Croatia. They lived there, and that's where I sent all the paperwork to them.
She helped me, but to be able to, as one person--I lived in one-bedroom
apartment, so to bring six people, that's another miracle. I remember, when they
came here, no one liked it here. I think they had different expectations, and
they didn't expect it's going to be so hard in the beginning. Now, they are all
very happy with life here.
SLOAN: Many that we talk to, talk about that difficulty of transitioning, being
in a new country, not knowing the language, not having a job. You have an
00:52:00education, but you're not certified to work in something that you're trained in,
here. Talk a little bit about that part of the transition.
COLIC: Okay. The difference between me and someone who came from Bosnia directly
to United States is I already have experience living in another
country--Germany. I lived in Germany from 1994 until 1998, four years. I learned
the German language the same way I learned English, I actually took classes. I
was not allowed to work, even though I have education as an electrical engineer.
I remember going to what's called Arbeitsamt [German Federal Employment Agency],
and I remember a conversation with a person there who told me, to my face, that
between me and a German person, they would hire a German. That [happened] a lot
00:53:00there, so we had to be creative finding jobs. I was cleaning houses,
babysitting, anything that I could, because I needed to save money for my
parents and also pay off my debt. My sister did the same. I'm going to show you
a picture of my youngest sister. She was dangerously thin at that time. She
could have died just from being thin. She couldn't understand why she, an
educated person, [was] not able to work. There were a lot of examples of other
people from Bosnia. For example, doctors being in the hospital. I know one
example of one lady who was a successful doctor in Bosnia, and she escaped from
Doboj. She was cleaning in the hospital, and there were doctors who were
operating in the hospital, and she told them what they need to do. These aren't
00:54:00all the examples.
I promised to myself when I come to the United States, I'm not going to be doing
any of these jobs, because four years doing that is enough. When I talked to
people at the agency who brought me here, they said no, no, no you cannot, you
don't know English, even though you have education. The first jobs here are you
have to either wash dishes, clean. I told them, "Watch me." (laughs) That's what
I told them. I remember my first apartment didn't have any furniture, just the
phone. I was wondering, why do we pay taxes. (laughs) That was the first thing.
When you buy something, you have to pay taxes. I remember that. I would buy the
Houston Chronicle paper, and I would have paper all over the floor, looking for
jobs and calling. I was taking--well, to the agency, one good thing, they were
00:55:00having English classes at night, so I could walk there. I didn't have a car, so
I would walk. Every night, I would go take that class or study English. I
promised myself I'm going to wait, but my first job is not going to be [menial
labor]. After three months, I found my first job at the bank downtown. After
taking so many bus routes, it's--so talking about transition, I remember, I
didn't speak English very well. It depends. Some people, when they hear that you
have an accent, they might think that you don't know the language, but I can
assure you that my language is very good, very proficient. (laughs) I learned a
lot. I read so many books, and I think I told Nathan, that was something that I
loved before, to read books and write, also.
00:56:00
In the beginning, it was hard. When I came to this country, it was
twenty-seventh of August on 1998. I remember that date, because it was really
hot, like today. That was the biggest transition, to adjust to the weather, but
I think everyone who comes here has to adjust to that. Also, living here taught
me a lot about--living in Germany, I realized if you want to learn about
culture, you have to know the language. You have to know the language very well.
You have to be with people to understand their culture. That's what I always
have in the back of my mind. That's why I was studying the language hard, to
00:57:00better understand. Now, I can say proudly, this is a great country where people
are courageous. It's not just me. There are so many other people who came here
with a dream.
SLOAN: It's amazing how you were able to get your whole family here, and that's
an amazing part of your story. Tell me about those feelings when it finally goes
through, and they're stepping off the plane.
COLIC: So, they came, too. I know when we went to pick them up, there was
someone who helped me. It was just--I don't know how to explain that. There was
so much joy, and we were crying, and just disbelief that we were finally
00:58:00together. Like I said, it was very hard for them in the beginning, because the
adjustments. You have to adjust to a new life, and you have some expectations of
what life should be in the United States. I tried to teach them, because I made
some mistakes along the way during those two years, what to do, what not to do.
I remember, when my sister was upset with me or when my brother-in-law was upset
with me, we would sit, and then I would tell them, "I know each and every one of
you very good. I know we can be very successful in this country. I believe in
that, so just be patient."
My brother-in-law, now he has his own business. He is building a second house.
My oldest niece, she finished civil engineering in UT in Austin. My other niece,
00:59:00she is like your wife; she's a psychologist. She's finishing psychology next
year. My other sister, she was able to get married. She brought a man from
Sarajevo who actually was in Sarajevo the whole time during the war, from the
beginning to the end. They got married in Sarajevo. They live here and have a
child together, my seven year old niece that I love to death. (laughs) She's
like a--she brings me a lot of joy--basically everyone.
SLOAN: Your commitment to your family kept you going.
COLIC: Yes. A lot of people, they ask me about why I never got married or have
children. When I think back, if I would have had children when I was supposed
01:00:00to, maybe my twenties or thirties, that would be during the war. I would
probably go crazy. I don't know how--like my sister, she was pregnant when they
were in Zvornik. They dated very long time, for seven years, and then got
married. [During those] ten years together, they couldn't have children. During
the war, she didn't even know that she was pregnant, until one day they were
captured, so they came back. He left to Germany, and she came back to my
parents. That was another danger for her; she was pregnant. When her water
broke, she walked to the hospital. During that night it was a curfew, so they
could have been killed, but she's so strong and courageous that--and then
01:01:00another thing. When you go to the hospital, because it's Serbian now, so they
either killed Muslim doctors or they had to leave. They were killing babies if
they were Muslim, especially boys, so she was praying that it's not a boy. She
told us that she didn't scream. She did natural birth, and she didn't scream or
anything. She was happy that it was a girl. She stayed for a while before she
escaped. When I talk to my niece, she doesn't--my sister and my brother, they
don't talk about this. I always talk to my niece that was born. I call her a war
child. I mean for my nieces they have to find their identities. It's hard for
them to understand. She even went back to Europe to live in Europe, kind of, to
01:02:00experience it. I think it's still hard for them to understand what we went
through. I always tell her you were born in the middle of war, you can do
anything. You don't even know how strong you are.
SLOAN: Yeah. I think of you leaving back in '92. I know you left for your little
sister, and that's what kept you going was that desire to take care of her and
get her to safety. How did that opportunity present itself to take the bus out?
I don't think I heard that. When you made the decision to leave, how did that
opportunity present itself?
COLIC: We had to be connected to some people who were helping people escape in
01:03:00the city. The opportunity [was] presented, and we were--I think the other thing,
because I lived in Serbia and studied in Serbia, it was easy for me. I crossed
that border all the time. Whenever I had a break, I would go back to my parents,
and then my mom would cook a lot of food. We would have food and go back. The
opportunity presented to leave, but that's when they took us from the bus. Also,
one of the neighbors that were in what's called, I think, White Eagles or
Arkans--paramilitary, one of them. They were good with my parents. They knew my
01:04:00parents, so they would visit each other. We grew up together. We were playing
together, so we knew each other. I think that when something like this happens,
when it's life or death, then you come across people that might be able to help
you. That's how we were able to get to escape. Along the way we experienced so
much fear.
SLOAN: Well I did not mention that Ellen Wilkerson, Melissa Sloan, and Nathan
01:05:00Roberts are also in the room with me. I want to make sure they've had an
opportunity to ask questions if they'd like to ask. I'll start with you, Ellen.
I didn't warn you I was going to do this, but do you have any questions you'd
like to ask Mirzeta?
WILKERSON: I don't think so. I don't.
SLOAN: Nathan?
ROBERTS: I do have a few. Thank you so much for speaking with us. It's been
wonderful listening to your story and to get to know you over the past couple of
months. One question I have is you seem to have been in school and work with
many Serbs. Do you have Serb friends that you still speak to?
COLIC: That's a very good question. (laughs) I used to have. My best friend was
a Serbian lady. I don't know what happened to her. Once I left, I never came
01:06:00back, but we were really good friends. We would go out together. We would date
guys together or go out you know to--what was famous in my city when we were
young. It's in the, like, the middle part of the city. It's not downtown. It's
the middle part of the city that we used to have a block where people would
walk. It was a lot of young people--cafes where you can sit outside and listen
to the music. After that happened, I really did not want to talk to her. It was
really hard for me to do that. As far as Serbs here, when I came to United
01:07:00States, the first place where they put me was one area that was really dangerous
to live. They put be with a Serbian family. That was for me very hard to accept.
Now you're putting me together with a Serbian family to live here? You want me
to live again the same fear? So, I left that place. I said, "I'm not going to be
here under the same roof with them." Luckily, that cousin of mine, they took me
under their wing. They let me stay at their place, and they also helped me find
an apartment. All the money that I had left saved from Germany, I used it for
that apartment in the beginning. It is still hard to--I mean I can still--I can
01:08:00communicate to them, but it's not really--I don't think it can be a friendship.
It's hard to do that because of all what happened.
ROBERTS: I don't want to--this isn't quite--to put it like this, but can you
tell us about your first friends in the United States. I know during our
conversations you mentioned having a lot of help from fellow employees. I think
one tin particular helped to get your family here. Just talk a little bit about that.
COLIC: Yes. That was one lady that worked with me at the Bank One, downtown
building. We were talking, and I told her that I was kind of concerned because I
sponsored my family to come here. I really don't know how I'm going to be able
01:09:00to provide support for them, because it's just me and I really didn't have a big
salary. She went to the manager of the bank, the lady, and they talked. She
talked to her, and she suggested is there any way we can help her. The whole
bank organized. I did not know anything about that. They collected furniture,
collected clothes, gift cards, whatever they could collect. When they told me
that, I didn't know how to express my gratitude. I still remember it, and I'm
still thankful to her. We're still in touch even though we no longer work
01:10:00together. I think she's almost retired. She's in her sixties. She always makes
jokes when she talks to me and is just a wonderful person, originally from
Louisiana. I have a lot of American friends here, and I think from doing martial
arts, I met a lot of people from South Korea, too. As far as Bosnian people, I
do have some friends, but all of us are very busy with our families and work
here. Both my sisters try to go to the Bosnian community more regularly than I
do. It's just hard for me to sometimes go there, because I see that people are
01:11:00really not together. It's a lot of clashing.
ROBERTS: You mentioned martial arts. Tell us about (Colic laughs) your martial
arts hobby and interest. I think that's very interesting.
COLIC: When I was younger in my country, I was always drawn to that. I don't
know why, and nobody really understood (laughs) my drawing to that. In my
country, for a woman to do that, it would be really hard back in the eighties.
So when I heard about that here--there was someone at work who suggested for me
to check out the school. When I started doing that, I realized that it's
something that I really really like. It's not just the learning how to use your
01:12:00body in different ways. You're learning how to become strong, how to defend
yourself. Also, you're learning how to overcome your fears. Basically, you are
seeing yourself every day, and so even now, I always have to overcome something.
Some of it could be inferiority. It could be greed. It could be different things
that every human has. That was something that is helping me to overcome and to
become humble, to become patient, to respect others, not to use that to fight
01:13:00with anyone. It's opposite of that. You become a stronger person. It's not a lot
of women doing that. It's mainly guys, but they accepted me, I think. (laughs) I
love doing that. I always love teaching others, children or women.
ROBERTS: I think this will be the last question that I have. Hopefully, a lot of
people will see this. What do you want them to know, having heard your story and
heard about your experiences and learned about war and genocide in Bosnia? What
01:14:00do you want them to know?
COLIC: I want them to understand that this was a war against civilians. It was
planned ethnic cleansing that was planned in advance against people who couldn't
defend themselves. I wish that no one [will] go through this again--not just my
country, any country. It's a horrible experience that you have to go through
where your whole life is shattered or destroyed. A lot of media during that time
01:15:00would talk about this being a civil war. BBC was saying that. Europe was saying
that, the United States. That's why a lot of people were cautious or didn't want
to interfere. They were thinking that once the fight ceased that everything is
going to be okay. At the same time, there were so many innocent lives lost,
people who were killed, tortured in the ways that a normal person cannot imagine
that someone can do that to people. I want people to know that this was a
01:16:00predetermined political strategy not a civil war. People are still suffering
because those who were guilty of these crimes are still free. When you go there
to Bosnia and you talk to people, everyone is like nothing happened. I think
that's not good. It's not good that people are ignoring the facts of what
happened or [acting as if] it didn't happen to you. They are still finding
remains of people who were killed. After twenty years, they are still finding
remains, so that means they don't even know how many people were killed. I
01:17:00consider myself lucky, because I know where my father's grave is. I know I can
go and visit his grave. A lot of families don't have that luxury. They don't
know where their loved ones are, or they couldn't have a proper burial.
SLOAN: Still no justice.
COLIC: Still no justice, so that's one of the reasons that I wanted to do this interview.
MELISSA SLOAN: I do have a couple of questions. One, you mentioned at the very
beginning of the interview what your father said about you, that of all of his
daughters that no matter where you went that you would do well. Do you remember?
COLIC: Yes.
MELISSA SLOAN: What do you think it was that he saw in you?
01:18:00
COLIC: I guess he knew me. (laughs) I was the oldest child. Maybe he saw that I
was always very focused. When I was a little child, I was studying a lot even
though a lot of parents were having issues with their children studying or doing
their homework or doing everything they were supposed to do. I was the opposite
of that. I would do more than what was required of me. He would say, "Whenever I
go to school to talk to your teachers, they would be talking about you so much
[my] face would go red." (laughs) Maybe he saw something, the determination in
01:19:00me to learn, to understand, to always do something better. I think that's what
he saw in me. Maybe because I was the first child, that could be another reason,
but I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for their love and guidance. I always think
about my mom and what she's been through. She's now seventy-two. She's here and
she's happy that we are all together. She's kind of like a glue keeping us
together. What she experienced and she's still strong--I think she's one of the
strongest women I ever met. I don't tell her that enough (laughs)--and how much
01:20:00she sacrifices for us.
MELISSA SLOAN: The other question that I had, Mirzeta, is you mentioned about
coming here two years ahead of your family. You were able to really help them
with their adjustment. What was the hardest thing for you, because you came
alone? What was the hardest thing for you in adjusting?
COLIC: The hardest thing for me--when I came here, so like I said August 27,
1998, my father passed August 13, 1998. I was in Germany at that time. I
remember the name of the street, Palm Gardens Straße [German for street]. I
always remember the call when my sister called me to tell me that my father
01:21:00passed and how my whole world was--it was really hard. It was either I go to his
funeral or I go on a plane to United States. I remember once I finished my
interview in Frankfort at the American base, and he knew that I was accepted,
that was what he told me, to go. He was very happy about it. It was hard for me
first to have to deal with the grief of your parent being gone, and now you have
to be very strong because I felt like I was thrown into fire. It's either live
or die. I think I was size zero at that time. (laughs) I was really skinny. I
couldn't eat, but I was determined, and his words were in my head.
01:22:00
Also, other family members, I was in contact with--I have cousins in Florida in
Jacksonville, so I would talk to them over the phone. My aunt there was telling
me during those two years, she would constantly tell me, "Get them out." She
would tell me, "Get them out. Just do whatever you can to get them out." She
knew how the situation wasn't good over there, so that was helping me. That was
the hardest part to deal with, my father's death and trying to live here and to
be a part of this great community. But, once my family came over, I think
01:23:00everything was kind of put in place. It's like, now I know why am I here. Now I
understand why am I here. I wish, I honestly wish if I could help not just my
family. I would help other people if I could. I would bring anyone who was not
able to come here, to come here because you have opportunities to do whatever
you want with your life.
The other thing, to answer your question, that was hard for me is when I--of
course, in the beginning, I was talking to a lot of Bosnian people. At the place
where I lived in the apartment complex, there was a lot of people from Bosnia.
We are different. People from Sarajevo is different from people from East
Bosnia, West, Herzegovina. We are completely different, so it was hard for me
01:24:00when I would listen to their complaints. They were not happy here. When they
came here, because they had to work hard, they were not happy. I remember, I
knew you cannot live in between. Either you are here, or you're over there. You
cannot be unhappy here. So you have to accept now you live in United States, and
that's where you are. That's your new home. If you don't accept that, you're
never going to be happy. You're always going to be thinking about what was
before, but what was before is no longer there. I know stories. A lot of people
from Bosnia who lived here for years became citizens and went back. There is a
lot of stories about these people. I kind of feel sorry for them, because I
01:25:00think that everything happened for a reason. Once you left, there's no reason
for you to go back. I don't see a reason. The only reason why I went back is,
like I said, to visit my father's grave. I cannot imagine going there. It's too
many bad memories. Even though it might look wonderful, but still it's not the
place where you can feel like you're at home.
MELISSA SLOAN: Thank you.
SLOAN: Well, you talked about that desire to not go to your home town because
you know it's not what it was.
COLIC: It's not just that, it's that those people basically took my parents'
house, and they're still there. I've been, actually, fighting to get the house
01:26:00back. We find a lawyer there. Twenty years after, I still cannot get it back
because everything is corrupt there. Bijeljina belongs to the Republika Srpska.
Guess what--the judges, attorneys, they are all corrupt, too. The only way I
could get it back, maybe, [is] if I could go over. If it was something on the
international level for people who lost their houses, they had could get it
back. It's not the matter of getting something material back. It's a matter of
principle, because my parents work hard their whole life. They basically built
that house with their hands. My mom always asks about that. She always points
01:27:00out how she would like to get it back, but it's just not possible. It's very
hard. It would be very hard for me to go there and confront these people. I
don't think I--I'm talking about myself, I don't know about anyone else. I know
some examples of people who go back to the city. It would be really hard for me
to walk the streets again.
SLOAN: Yeah, I think that would be very hard. Mirzeta, we've covered a lot, but
I want to make sure if there's anything that you would like to share, that we
didn't necessarily get to, that you think would be important to include.
01:28:00
COLIC: The thing that comes to mind is gratitude, appreciation. When I came to
this--and I think I talked to Nathan about that--I knew that the Clintons helped
Bosnians come here. He was the president. They knew everything about conflict.
They visited Bosnia so many times. They loved Bosnian people. I always thought,
I heard my people complaining all the time but nobody say thank you. Hey, I'm
thankful because if it wasn't for this great country I wouldn't be able to have
job, house, build a new life, start from beginning. I took it upon myself to
find the Clinton address information. I wrote them a letter of appreciation, and
01:29:00I said, "This is on behalf of all Bosnian people. I wanted to say thank you to
you and Mrs. Clinton for helping us come here, because if it wasn't for you we
wouldn't be able to go to any other country, because they were deporting us from
European countries." I had help. One of my best friends, who was a good friend
in college. During the war in Bosnia, he was one of the Bosnian soldiers who
were defending the country. Later on, he was in the defense department, like the
military for Bosnia. He helped me with some facts about some American soldiers
who were there, so I was able to write the letter.
01:30:00
I didn't think that he was going to reply to my letter. I remember, a couple of
months afterwards there was a [reply]. I still have the envelope. It's from
President Clinton. When I read his letter, I thought I made him cry. That's what
I thought, because I don't think anyone else say thank you, and he knew how much
hard work was involved to accomplish that to bring us here. I was very proud of
myself that I was able to say thank you to someone. I think that that's what we,
most people from my country, forget about, to appreciate more what we have
instead of just looking at what we used to have but no longer have.
01:31:00
SLOAN: Well, you said thank you to him, I'm going to say thank you to you. (both
laugh) This will keep me from having to write a letter. No, I'll write a letter
anyway. Thank you, Mirzeta, for taking time today and your desire. I think of
you with your niece. You want her to understand, and you're doing the same thing
here. You want to pass on that understanding, and so we're very grateful to you
for taking time and taking the effort to share your story with us today.
COLIC: Yes, and I wish there would be more people who would talk because, like I
said, there are others who were not [as] lucky [as] me. They were able to
survive, but they've been through real hell, who were in concentration camps,
who were beaten every day. It is very hard for people to talk about this because
01:32:00once you start talking, those pictures come back. Everything that you
experienced is coming back. I know you have to deal with it. I told Dr. Sloan
I've been doing mediation, too. (laughs) You have to find a way to deal with it.
I also appreciate each and every one of you. I was surprised that something like
this exists. Because of everything that we experienced during the war, a lot of
people from Bosnia are very skeptical. They don't trust a lot because of
everything that happened, but to know that there are a group of people like you,
that they are doing the right thing for future generations, or to share the
truth, I think it's very courageous of you, what you're doing too. You are
01:33:00approaching people who experienced something that can be compared to the
Holocaust that happened to Jewish people. I think it's very brave of you that
you are documenting that. I hope that you find more people. If I can help you in
any way, I'm very open to help you, anything that you need. (laughs)
SLOAN: Thank you, Mirzeta.
end of recording