Texas Liberators - Wilson Canafax (September 14, 2011)

SLOAN: Yes, this is Stephen Sloan. The date is September 14, 2011. I'm with Mr. Wilson--Rev. Wilson Canafax at his facility, the Church of Christ--what's the name of it?

CANAFAX: Lakewood Retirement Center.

SLOAN: Lakewood Retirement Center. And this is an interview with the Texas Holocaust and Genocide Commission's Texas Liberators Project. Reverend Canafax, thank you for sitting down with me today.

CANAFAX: Glad to do it.

SLOAN: I would love to start--we talked just a little bit earlier about where you were from. If--if we can begin there, and you talk a little bit about your childhood and your family and that sort of thing.

CANAFAX: Well, I was born in the town of Millsap. My father was the station agent for the railroad that went through Millsap at that time. My mother became ill, and Dad moved the family. And I was the last of four children, three of 00:01:00whom were living. Dad moved to Dallas to get my mother near medical help, and--but she died. And so I was brought up in the city of Dallas. And Dad had a hard time. He had--his work was seven days a week. Ironically, he had no way of transportation, so he walked three miles to and three miles from his work every day. So you add that up over thirty-five years, and you'll see how much he walked. And he never weighed over 125 pounds. Walked all of his weight off.

But my grandmother--our grandmother was the one who came into the home to look after us and see that we had clean clothes. And if we had patched clothes, they were still clean. And she got us off to school every day. In fact, the last six 00:02:00years of my public school education, I didn't miss a class, nor was I tardy. That's impossible today, but I did it, and I was glad I could. I got special recognition for it, and that was okay.

And I graduated from high school at Woodrow Wilson High in Dallas. I was a pretty good Wildcat; that's what they were. And I--I came to--I heard there was a school in Fort Worth where you could get a job and go to school. So I came over and I found a job working. And my grandmother, who had brought me up, had no place to go, so I took her with me to college. And we literally stayed there together for four years in a--in an apartment. She looked after my food, my 00:03:00clothing, and everything else, and made me ready for school every day, like she had been when I was in high school. And I finished Texas Wesleyan. I came to SMU Seminary [Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University] at--in Dallas. Part of the school system there. And I was just an average student. I was a pretty good guy, but an average student.

And the war was going on, and they were needing chaplains. And so I guess out of patriotism or whatever, I told them I'd be ready to go if they could use me. And they said yes. So I was sent to Fort Devins, Massachusetts, for training. And it was not a lengthy training, but it was there--I was there during the wintertime, 00:04:00and it gets cold in the interior Massachusetts, I can tell you. Texas light-blood going up there and it was--it was cold. And I was given assignment from there to the parachute school at Fort Benning, Georgia. And I appreciated that. I was working with men who were under risk, but I was not a jumper. I was getting ready to be, and they said, We need you more elsewhere. So they picked me up and sent me to Europe. And I stayed in a depot in Belgium a few weeks--I think three weeks, near the little town of Dolhain, D-o-l-h-a-i-n.

And so then they assigned me to the 1110th Engineer Combat Group, which was up 00:05:00in the middle part of Germany. And that's where I met my group. And they received me with genuine appreciation and friendship. And it wasn't long until they gave me a promotion from a second lieutenant to a captain--from a first lieutenant to a captain. So I was there--when the war ended, I was there at Marburg, M-a-r-b-u-r-g. And having been over there such a brief time, they said, We want you to stay and do some chaplaincy work. Okay. So they sent me down to Stuttgart. And I was at Stuttgart for a while. And from Stuttgart, I was sent up to Frankfurt, headquarters chaplain at Frankfurt. I enjoyed that. The bigwigs were there, and I had a chance to--to possibly be of service to them. But there 00:06:00I was a young chaplain--chaplain who was still green behind the ears trying to be a chaplain to those four-star people. And the proximity wasn't too close, but I enjoyed doing that. Then stayed and did that work until the--they began to disperse troops and send them home.

So I came home and got started in my work. So I had finished seminary and--of course, before I went in to the military. And I was ready for a responsibility, a church. I got in--in home. They needed a staff person on the staff at First Methodist--First United Methodist Church in Fort Worth. It was a sizeable church, excellent membership, minister, choir, and all that. So I spent three 00:07:00years there, and that was probably as meaningful to me as a seminary education, getting to know so much and do a great deal that way. Okay, where did I go after First Methodist Church? Went to a place down close to Waco, Mart. And Mart was a marvelous appointment. I enjoyed that. Stayed there four years, could have stayed longer. Then I was sent to a church in Weatherford and appreciated the people at Weatherford, and the fact that I wasn't in a place that I didn't appreciate. Then I went from there and stayed six years in a country town at Hamilton, down in Central Texas. And never a finer group of people lived in a 00:08:00small town than in Hamilton. So I stayed there and appreciated that work very much.

And eventually came back into Fort Worth and began to raise my family. Came to St. Luke Church. I was in a building program there. I appreciated what I could do at St. Luke, and then I served at the Polytechnic Church there in East Fort Worth. And then, after serving there, where did I go? Well, I served two more churches in Fort Worth, and then when that was over I became--I'm trying to think--I became a staff member for my church, that is in the general church. I 00:09:00was based in Fort Worth, but I had a six-year responsibility in administrative work with the church. And then the time went on and time came to retire.

I served a church over in North Texas for a while. I was at Commerce, East Texas. Lovely appointment at the university there, East Texas State. And I was not a bookworm, but I sure enjoyed good books. And I could get over there and get behind in those book rows, and nobody could ever find me. I could do some reading, and enjoyed it that way. So retired and moved to Fort Worth, and that's 00:10:00where I've been--been related to a church in Haltom City. Been in the church there for--it's First Methodist Church, Haltom City. Stayed there for--I'm still there.

SLOAN: That's still your church?

CANAFAX: Yeah. So it's been a good life. And I've often said if I had life to live over, I would do it again.

SLOAN: Well, I want to go back and ask you a few questions about it if we could. You gave me a nice overview there, but some of the things that came to mind as I heard you talk about your story--early on, when did you feel like you got the call to go into ministry? When did you know that ministry was something that you wanted to do?

CANAFAX: Mine was no big to-do. That is, I didn't see a streak of lightning 00:11:00across the sky that tells you to go preach. Mine was sort of a gradual feeling. I just got into it because that was what I wanted to do. And I felt like I had a personal relationship with God to respond to the work that I was called to do. And so it was a genuine feeling, a genuine call, and I appreciate so much the fact that I could be in the ministry and serve in such varied ways and circumstances to live. So when I got into--I think I've told you about my education.

SLOAN: Um-hm, your study at SMU?

CANAFAX: Yeah.

SLOAN: Well, that decision, once you had your degree from the seminary, to go 00:12:00into the chaplaincy, can you talk about that decision and how you came to that decision?

CANAFAX: Well, as I'd mentioned before, they do not draft chaplains, and that was all right. But I went into the chaplaincy of the army because I'd had extensive experience in high school with ROTC. I kind of went up in echelons of it. And I thought, since that experience was there, I would probably be--do a better job as an army chaplain since I'd had some of the basic information. And, I guess, that's the way it was. But I went in the church--all churches had a chaplain's commission. And you could not volunteer for the chaplaincy unless you had the recommendation of that commission. And I went to Chicago and met the 00:13:00Commission on Chaplains of the Methodist Church, and they recommended me. That's when the army took me in as a chaplain.

SLOAN: Now, when you got to Europe--that's a long way from Dallas-Fort Worth, so what did you think when you got to Europe?

CANAFAX: Let's get with it, fellow. That was--that was my feeling all along, you know, that this is great. But once I got in there and things were pretty hot, I said, Well, what are you doing over here? And I said to myself, Well, you volunteered to come. So since you volunteered to come, and you're assigned to a good outfit, they've given you promotions as you move along, so let's get with it. So that's the way it was.

SLOAN: Do you remember where you were when that reality set in--this is just not 00:14:00a vacation, this is--

CANAFAX: Oh yeah, that--that reality set in when I was with the 1110th Engineer Combat Group, stationed there near Eisenach, near the Buchenwald concentration camp. I've never regretted having been sent to this engineer combat group. They were all such wonderful guys, and they--they put me through friendship and care and things of that nature. And I got homesick. Some of them were homesick, too. In fact, homesickness was almost 100 percent. And I was at Marburg when hostilities ceased, and they signed the treaties in that area. So then after I 00:15:00was there, I was sent down to Stuttgart, after the war was over, and I became the chaplain for--with an outfit in Stuttgart, Germany.

SLOAN: Now in that earlier period, while the war was still going on--while the war was still being fought, can you give us an idea of what--what your daily duties were? What--I know there wasn't necessarily a normal day, but what were some of the things that you were doing during the day?

CANAFAX: Main thing, since the war--when it--for about the last thirty to sixty days before the war was over, everybody knew things were winding down. The days of the strength of the German army were limited. We knew that. So our thoughts began to be of transition, of ending things and getting back home. And everybody 00:16:00wanted to go home, which is natural. And so that's about the way it was. Things were changing so much, men coming and going, and so on. We had personal problems to deal with. I dealt with some. I dealt with some of my own, and until I could come home and get back--looking forward so much to getting home and getting back in a church. And I had home sicknesses like anybody else did. And I really went through a spiritual concern at that time, because I said to myself, Here you are, a man of God, a chaplain, and you're really thinking about wanting to go home. Why can't you handle that yourself, now? And that was something hard to 00:17:00handle. And I did some--discussed it with others, and found out that just about everybody was the same way. And so then the time came when I was separated from the service and came on home.

SLOAN: Well, when you're in--when you were in the field and you were with the combat group--combat engineering group, what did you see as kind of the most important function or the most important role that you served during that period?

CANAFAX: Well, by the nature of the chaplain's job, he was not--he was not put in positions of danger. Now some were there, and I was for a little while, but they wanted chaplains back where they could be contacted and deal with--with men pulled back, or plan for worship services, and have all of the things that would 00:18:00be of help to the men in service--so when they could come. And that's--that's about the way it was. You were--I was never shot at. I don't know very many chaplains who were. Though I had one good friend in the chaplaincy who was--was hit by an .88. It was a terrible thing, his death. But that's the way it was. You did what you could where you were.

SLOAN: Well, one of your experiences that I would like for you to kind of walk us through and spend some time with is--you've already mentioned Buchenwald, and if you could just take us through that. And I know sometimes--it's going to be difficult to talk about, but it's, you know, it's important that we get it 00:19:00recorded. And so if you don't mind, if you could take us through your experience there.

CANAFAX: Well, as I mentioned, the outfit I was with was the 1110th Engineer Combat Group. And we had moved up to Eisenach in that period of transition. And while I was at Eisenach--we were there about thirty days, I guess. I had heard that there was a death camp. We didn't know much about concentration camps, or death camps, and neither did the German people. You've often heard it said that the German leadership kept these camps quiet as they could, away from people, and they did a pretty good job of it. Some of the German people I got to know 00:20:00quite well after the war I'm convinced were not fully aware of what those camps were. And so I wanted to--well, I heard there was one close by to Osenach--Eisenach--excuse me. And this was no organized effort. In fact, there was nothing organized much right after the war because it was all dispersed. So I decided I'd go nearby, about fifteen miles away, to this place they called a death camp, or a concentration camp. And I didn't know much what to find. It was strictly an informal visit.

A person wearing captain's bars could go most any place, and chaplains were given commissions. And so I thought, Well, I'll go down and see about this 00:21:00place. And my jeep driver and I drove down there. And we parked near the front entrance, you know, started over toward the front. I knew I could go in because I had my chaplain's bars. And before I got to the front entrance, there was a young fellow, came up to me speaking perfect English. Looked like he was about fifteen or sixteen years old. He was too young to have been in the German army. And he said, "I see you have a cross on your lapel. Are you a chaplain?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Could you--think you could do us a favor?" I said, "Well, I can try." It turned out that this person that was talking to me was the young fellow, Eliezer Wiesel, Eliezer Wiesel, who's known better today as Elie Wiesel. 00:22:00There have been documentaries on his life. Well, he didn't know me from Adam, and same thing. I just knew I was meeting a young fellow. And I was six or eight years older than he, and he was too young to go into the German army, and I was--I was too young to really be a chaplain, but I was there anyhow.

And he says, "Could you do something for us?" And I said, "Well, I'll do my best if I can help you." And he said, "First of all, I'd like to take you through some parts of the camp here." And I didn't know what that meant because I didn't go there for any formal take-through. They didn't have any formal take-through. Those had not developed as yet. But I went through the main entrance, I remember that well, and walked in. And as you've heard the expression dead men walking, 00:23:00that's the way the--the--I don't like to use the word inmate. I don't like to use the word residents. That's where the people who were in the concentration camp looked. I went to several of them, some who could speak English, and I could talk a little bit with them. I planned a worship service for them. A chaplain had many different ways to put things together, so I planned a Jewish worship service for those in the Buchenwald death camp who wanted to come.

So many of them had--wanted nothing to do with religion, but those who were genuine in their faith enjoyed the opportunity to come to a worship service, 00:24:00they came. And I met with them several times for services, but I remember the first time. We got our carry-alls, those big trucks, and put the people who could be carried in those things to a place where we could have a worship service. They had to be lifted on. They had to be carried on, crying. They never thought they'd be alive. Many of them had been there, not knowing too much about their past, because they'd always been under some kind of incarceration--concentration. But we got them in the carry-alls and took them to the place of worship. And I was in charge of the worship service.

We had some little prayer books--I wish I had mine now--that were distributed 00:25:00among those that wanted them. And on one side of it was Hebrew, Hebrew prayers. Other side was English. So as they went through the service in Hebrew, then I could follow along in English itself. They cried. They shouted. When they got through, they were just raising hands, sort of like our Pentecostals today raise theirs. They were just raising their hands in joy and appreciation. They didn't think they'd ever see that again. They didn't think they'd be alive, but that was it. And I didn't think much about doing that, because that's regular work of a chaplain. You were trained and equipped to do certain things. But I did them, got through, went back to my outfit, kept on going in the chaplaincy with what I was doing.

So later on I began to think, Well, there's more to this than just what you went through. So I've read a lot of stuff on Buchenwald and other things over there. I wouldn't--I would not go through it again. Glad to have had the opportunity that one time, but it began to have a slow working thing on me which has been a lifelong circumstance. And there are times when it's been almost too heavy to bear, continue keep on going. You do.

SLOAN: I know you're a man of faith, and so I'd be interested to know, as you've thought about your faith, and you've talked about it, kind of, your own spiritual journey. As you think about that experience, within your larger spiritual journey, how do you think about it?

CANAFAX: The first thing I thought about was--the first thing that came in was one of guilt. Now, you've had the kind of faith which you have told yourself will hold up to anything. You have the kind of expression to yourself with the idea that you can face anything. Okay old boy, you have faced something you can't handle, now what are you going to do? Well, it was a spiritual struggle, that they--I said to myself, Now you didn't want to--I didn't want to come to you or anybody else that says, You know, my faith isn't strong enough to bear this. I was guilty, I felt guilt. I didn't have the kind of faith I should have. But nonetheless I went through it. And the feeling at that time was, I didn't 00:28:00have the faith, but yet I did. And went through it, came out of it, and have continued. And I still have, I don't say flashbacks, but I go back to that time of, Why couldn't you handle it? The main thing that I could do is get back home and get to work. Deal with people, prepare sermons, preach them. Just be a part of what you were meant to be to begin with.

SLOAN: Do you mind sharing other memories you have? You said you had the opportunity to have conversations with some of those in the camp in English, and I know there were other sights that you saw in the camp. If you could share a little bit of that?

CANAFAX: My conversations at Buchenwald were rather limited. As I said, there was no formal--there were no formal tours going through, and they didn't try to 00:29:00organize people to bring them in and let them see it. That was before all that happened. I was dealing with men, looking at them, almost 100 percent of whom could not speak English. And they were looking at me, and I was a chaplain, a man of God. What could I do for them? And there wasn't much I could do. I still carry that feeling of inadequacy. When I was there with them and had been presented with a situation that my faith said, Ok, here you are now. What can you do, and what are you doing with it? And so I felt like I couldn't do much with it. And did I depend on the grace of God? Yes. God's grace was present 00:30:00then, even though I couldn't feel it the way I should, it was there, and it's been with me ever since that time.

SLOAN: Now other--as you went through the camp and you talked about seeing the people, were there other things that you saw while you were in the camp that--I know you now know about the layout and the--what was there at Buchenwald and that sort of thing?

CANAFAX: Yes. There was a room about--not quite as big as this room. The ceilings were higher. But this room had pegs in it about where the ceiling is in this room. Those pegs were about six or eight feet apart. They were heavy pegs. There were little stools around. They would bring the German people in there, and put them on those stools, and put ropes around their necks, and have them 00:31:00there, maybe--I didn't count the number of places there were--but I guess at one time maybe they could exterminate forty or fifty people. Kick those stools out from underneath them. I've never tried to myself imagine what it looked like to see all those people struggling and trying to live. I didn't see it, but my imagination was there. And anyway, that's--that was the killing room. They would take them over to ovens on one side of the--the room and put the bodies in there and exterminate them. They did away with them there. This is where they killed people. It's where they burned their bodies. Of course, when I got there, they 00:32:00were--it wasn't happening anymore. It stopped, but nonetheless, some of the circumstances were there.

SLOAN: Did you know how long--how--after the camp had been liberated when you got there?

CANAFAX: Oh, some people had left. Uh--two weeks? There was no organized closing of the camp, as I tried to mention awhile ago. There was nothing organized, and people could come and go, inmates, but most of them had no place to go. And so that's the way it was. I didn't try to organize any circumstance of dismissing them, because that just couldn't be done. I wasn't the one to do it anyway. But 00:33:00later on there was kind of an organized effort to see that they could get where they want. But so many had no place to go. We had to take care of them, and I'm not sure how we did it all. But they had no families to go to.

SLOAN: Was there military medical personnel there as well?

CANAFAX: I'm sure they all--from our standpoint, we took care of the most extreme cases and then gradually were able to take care of those that were not so bad.

SLOAN: I know that the condition they were in--several of them lost their life while you were there, I would imagine. Did you have any responsibilities--(both talking)

CANAFAX: No.

SLOAN: --with last rites or anything like that?

CANAFAX: No. They didn't--they did not want GIs--they did not want those of us 00:34:00with the military to take care of anything of the civilians. There were--there were ministers, they were--they were still there dealing with their--their own dead and their own people in need.

SLOAN: You mentioned meeting Elie Wiesel, and he asked if--if you could do them a favor. Was the favor to see the camp? What was--or was it the worship service?

CANAFAX: Worship service.

SLOAN: The worship service.

CANAFAX: He--he just simply said--told me--he says, "We can provide everything that's needed except a place and the ability to get there." I said, "Ok. I'll take care of that. You take care of the worship service." And that's what we did. The place of meeting was a large Protestant church there in Eisenach. And 00:35:00we brought them in those carry-alls. They--they were still amazed, and blank looks on their faces. Some of them, I'm sure, got on the carry-alls and--not even knowing what was going to be happening.

SLOAN: That had to be such a powerful worship service.

CANAFAX: Yeah. Oh yeah. It was--and I went to two or three worship services. Went over to see that they went all right.

SLOAN: So now, you said you came back to your unit and you went on. And was it from there you went to Stuttgart?

CANAFAX: Stuttgart.

SLOAN: Ok. And if you can give me--I know, after there the war's over. You're in 00:36:00Stuttgart there at headquarters. And so at that time are you--are you kind of counseling soldiers there? What sort of work are you doing at that time?

CANAFAX: You just got into the mishmash of everything. All changing so much. We'd have worship services. We would requisition sanctuaries, and let the German people come if they wanted to. But it was the first time in my life that I'd gotten one of those tall pulpit areas, looking down on the people, you know, preaching to them. But that's what they--we appreciated what they wanted, so that's what we did.

SLOAN: Do you remember--and this is a really hard question--but do you remember 00:37:00any of the messages or the themes of the messages that you were sharing at that time?

CANAFAX: I didn't save any of my notes. I wish I had them. But I dwelt on God's love now. God's love with you, whatever your circumstance. He has not left you because of what all's gone on. God is personally with you. I didn't--I didn't ask for decisions. That was rather difficult to do in the army. But you just hope and pray that if some people would choose to decide to live closer to God in the Christian faith, that they would do so in the silence of their hearts and minds. And I kind of feel like they did.

SLOAN: That comment you made, it was hard to do in the army, ask for decisions. 00:38:00Can you talk about that a little bit?

CANAFAX: Well, for the most part you'd just have worship services. And you let it be known that any time, day or night, wherever you were, you were open to discuss whatever concerns might be with you. So you were open at all times. Not simply the chaplain, but there were some other people that would be that way. I think we covered a pretty good relationship of meeting the needs of the GIs in that way.

SLOAN: Do you remember some of those--when you were in Europe--some of those talks with GIs that stood out to you, that would come to you for--?

CANAFAX: Yeah. They were almost all on the same thing. That is, I need to go 00:39:00home. I want to go home. And so I'd say I'd join them. I was one of them that had the same feeling. So that was--but you--you could get away from that thought, but nonetheless that's pretty well what they came with. I need to get out. I've got a wife. I've got children. I've got a job. Now that the war's over I don't need to be here. And I said, I understand you. But that didn't happen in the military. You stayed with it.

SLOAN: Yeah. Well, did you get to rub elbows with any of the brass--upper brass while you were there in Stuttgart?

CANAFAX: I think probably the closest I was to anybody notable--anyone of any 00:40:00circumstance was a fellow by the name of Martin Niemöller. He was quite well known as a German leader, and he had something to do with the time of Hitler's life. Niemöller had come against Hitler that way. I went to--he was to speak. This was in--where was it? It was in Stuttgart, at Stuttgart, I guess. And the sanctuary of the church--was moderate size--was filled to capacity. And I came in. I went right down to the front, sitting on the front row--not even seats, but just rows. And he was speaking just like that, and I was just there listening to it. So that was the closest I got to someone who was at extreme 00:41:00capability at that time. I don't suppose that any--I'm sure there were casual contacts in some way, but an outstanding way, I can't say there was.

SLOAN: Well, I know you were anxious to get home, so when did get--when did you get to return? Can you talk about your return back from the war?

CANAFAX: Not soon enough. (both laugh) But I came home. All this was in 1945. All of it took place within thirty to sixty days, I'd say, from the time they ended the war to the time we had a chance to come home. So there wasn't anything spectacular about it. I came home. I was married. And I don't suppose a GI's 00:42:00wife could be any closer than my wife was. She was just plain steady. And I know she tried to cook--bake cookies and send them to me. By the time they'd get to me they'd be all dry, powdery, and stuff, but we still appreciated what she was doing. There were some GIs who were pretty well heavy in guilt. They were going home now and they had--you know, the idea of preserving yourself bodily was pretty well--I say, there wasn't anything to it. As you left the orderly room, there'd be a box of condoms. You'd get you some of those, put them in your 00:43:00pocket, have them handy. Every GI was expected to when he left there. And there'd be a map of certain ones that you could go to and stay away from because they were diseased. They didn't want too much disease to come around.

I know one time, I was doing my best to talk to my guys in my outfit. I guess there were about two or three hundred of them gathered in one room. And what could I say to help them to get home for their wives in a meaningful way, that is having kept themselves. I didn't ask people that, but I really bore down on it. And the colonel of the outfit asked me to come into his room. And he was a 00:44:00good guy; I appreciate him very much. And he says, "Chappy, I know where you're coming from, but don't bear down too heavy. These guys have been through everything that you could imagine." And he says, "Go ahead and be the one that relates to them and help them, but don't condemn them to hell because of what they've done."

Boy, he had a point there. I thought of that one time when I was in Paris on leave. You know, you could--after the war was over, you could get leave to go most any place for a brief time, maybe a week or so. And I went in to Paris, two of us together. We were walking down the street, past a lady. And she came up to me just almost imploring to have sex with her. And the one thing that they were 00:45:00doing, not simply for gratification on their part, or giving the GI gratification, but they were needing money to buy food to live. And I had a different feeling about what that was. What it meant. And I think there was a forgiving spirit with God with some of those people and what they were having to go through.

SLOAN: As you think about when you returned, and you talked about getting back and preparing sermons and working in a church, that particular experience that you had in Buchenwald, what do you think--how do you think that affected what sort of man of the cloth that you were?

CANAFAX: For a long time, you wouldn't let it affect you. You almost wanted to eliminate that period of time in your life that was there, and just get back in to where you had been and what you were doing. But it did. The effect was there. And I pretty well kept it, the experiences and feelings, down, until one time it just sort of exploded, came out, you know. For me to define what that explosion coming out meant is rather difficult, but it changed everything, your outlook on life and your doings. I know I wanted to quit, get out of the ministry for a time because of not being able to stand up to those things the way I felt like I should.

SLOAN: I see.

CANAFAX: But eventually I came to terms with it, had to come to terms with. And I accepted the fact that it happened. That was the only way I could do it. I couldn't deny the fact. I accepted it. It did happen. I was participating in it, and this is what it did to you.

SLOAN: Well, I thought as you were saying that, you know, there are those that want to deny the whole event happened. And it's interesting you just talking about going through, personally going through the process.

CANAFAX: Yeah, I think you have to do that. At least I did, but for a while I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't even think about it. I wouldn't necessarily stand up and say, I'm not going to talk about this. I just wouldn't talk about it. But 00:48:00once I got through that negative feeling, it's been a blessing to me that I have, and it's been a blessing to many people. As I mentioned to you, I've gone around to schools and talked to them--some of the experiences. And I've been thankful to come.

SLOAN: When you get a chance to talk to a school or something, what do you want to let them--what do you want to make sure you let them know about that?

CANAFAX: This is a rather--it's a very important point, but you've got to refer to yourself as having been there and experienced that without trying to put yourself on a pedestal and saying, Ah, look what I've done. But you've got to say to the--in some respects, here's a fellow that is flesh and blood, and he's 00:49:00experienced many of the things you read about in your textbooks. Now, I want you to ask questions of me because here I am flesh and blood in front of you, and I want you to open up. And they did pretty well.

SLOAN: Well, I'd be interested to know what do kids usually ask? What do they ask about?

CANAFAX: Well, the first place, they never can put themselves in the position you're in. And their questions had to do mainly with, Ok, you've gone through it. You're back home. How are you doing back home now? You've got a job? You've got--how's your wife doing? That type of thing. Because they could never put themselves in the position of having experienced those things.

SLOAN: Yeah.

CANAFAX: And I don't know how adequately I've done it, but I've done it.

SLOAN: It's why we are here, to hear it in your words because we can't put ourselves in that position. So is there something I should have asked you that I didn't ask you about?

CANAFAX: I don't know. I think that's covered it pretty well. And I think I would tell you if I thought there was something you should ask. No, that's pretty well it.

SLOAN: Well, Reverend Canafax, I want to thank you for your time today. I want to thank you for your service to our country.

CANAFAX: Thank you.

end of interview